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	<title>Comments on: Wrong wording is not sexism</title>
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	<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism</link>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10658</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10658</guid>
		<description>His offline identity was not known at the time so the police could not be contacted.  I was not one of the women who received one of the (very explicit) threats.  I&#039;m sure you know of at least one of the women in the Ubuntu community who did receive them, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>His offline identity was not known at the time so the police could not be contacted.  I was not one of the women who received one of the (very explicit) threats.  I&#8217;m sure you know of at least one of the women in the Ubuntu community who did receive them, though.</p>
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		<title>By: CT</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10648</link>
		<dc:creator>CT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 23:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10648</guid>
		<description>You posted a comment that&#039;s longer than what I&#039;ve written in the post, but it says less useful things. You make it sound like all women are evil witches that like nothing better than to destroy our lives. It&#039;s unfair and unjust.
That&#039;s all I&#039;m going to say about it, it deserves nothing more. I won&#039;t remove it because I don&#039;t do censoring, but I strongly disagree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You posted a comment that&#8217;s longer than what I&#8217;ve written in the post, but it says less useful things. You make it sound like all women are evil witches that like nothing better than to destroy our lives. It&#8217;s unfair and unjust.<br />
That&#8217;s all I&#8217;m going to say about it, it deserves nothing more. I won&#8217;t remove it because I don&#8217;t do censoring, but I strongly disagree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: qense</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10550</link>
		<dc:creator>qense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 06:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10550</guid>
		<description>I deleted his last comment, because I don&#039;t feel like providing a platform for his rants. Blame me for inconsistency, but I don&#039;t think that comment added anything more to what he said before. 

Death threats? That&#039;s sick! Did you contact the police? I&#039;d always report such things. 

In retrospect using the call to boycott Ubuntu as an example wasn&#039;t a very good example indeed. Most people complaining about Mark&#039;s statement were a lot more reasonable that the ones attacking them. 
I still stand behind my post, the fact that everyone immediately reacted so strongly irritated me because in my eyes it wasn&#039;t always rightfully.
However, it does show there is a problem, all those people aren&#039;t so alert without a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I deleted his last comment, because I don&#8217;t feel like providing a platform for his rants. Blame me for inconsistency, but I don&#8217;t think that comment added anything more to what he said before. </p>
<p>Death threats? That&#8217;s sick! Did you contact the police? I&#8217;d always report such things. </p>
<p>In retrospect using the call to boycott Ubuntu as an example wasn&#8217;t a very good example indeed. Most people complaining about Mark&#8217;s statement were a lot more reasonable that the ones attacking them.<br />
I still stand behind my post, the fact that everyone immediately reacted so strongly irritated me because in my eyes it wasn&#8217;t always rightfully.<br />
However, it does show there is a problem, all those people aren&#8217;t so alert without a reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Mackenzie</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10533</link>
		<dc:creator>Mackenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10533</guid>
		<description>Qense:
MikeeUSA is the person who sent death threats to many women involved in Debian and LinuxChix last year.  Just so ya know.

Also, the TuxMachines person who called for a boycott? Read the post.  They made it ABUNDANTLY clear that they hate Ubuntu and have just been looking for an excuse to boycott.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Qense:<br />
MikeeUSA is the person who sent death threats to many women involved in Debian and LinuxChix last year.  Just so ya know.</p>
<p>Also, the TuxMachines person who called for a boycott? Read the post.  They made it ABUNDANTLY clear that they hate Ubuntu and have just been looking for an excuse to boycott.</p>
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		<title>By: qense</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10523</link>
		<dc:creator>qense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 14:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10523</guid>
		<description>You posted a comment that&#039;s longer than what I&#039;ve written in the post, but it says less useful things. You make it sound like all women are evil witches that like nothing better than to destroy our lives. It&#039;s unfair and unjust.
That&#039;s all I&#039;m going to say about it, it deserves nothing more. I won&#039;t remove it because I don&#039;t do censoring, but I strongly disagree with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You posted a comment that&#8217;s longer than what I&#8217;ve written in the post, but it says less useful things. You make it sound like all women are evil witches that like nothing better than to destroy our lives. It&#8217;s unfair and unjust.<br />
That&#8217;s all I&#8217;m going to say about it, it deserves nothing more. I won&#8217;t remove it because I don&#8217;t do censoring, but I strongly disagree with you.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeeUSA</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10498</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeeUSA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 23:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10498</guid>
		<description>A letter to the women&#039;s rights activists attacking the men of the free software movement:
-----------------------------
[quote]
In one of them the 2005 study by Yuwei Lin appears, entitled &quot;Inclusion, diversity and gender equality: Gender Dimensions of the Free/Libre 
              Open Source Software Development&quot; (PDF). As main points from this study were mentioned:
 * &quot;Strong long-hour coding culture * A lack of &#039;mentors&#039; and role models * Discriminatory language online and/or offline (e.g. phrases in 
              documentaries) * A gendered text-based environment * Lack of a women-centered view in FLOSS development * A male-dominated competitive 
              worldview * No sympathy from women peers
  
 &#039;Lack of a women-centered view in FLOSS development&#039;
 
 Robert isn&#039;t simply banging a drum but provides quite simple guidelines to promote diversity, and thus a more women-friendly environment, in FOSS communities:
 
* Recruit diversity, not programming skills (&quot;You can teach programming; you can&#039;t teach passion of diversity&quot;);
 
(Kirley Robert)
 
 &quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;Our objective is to increase women&#039;s participation in the free software movement and work to make sexism in person or online 
              unacceptable within our community. Women represent less than 2% of the free software movement, yet our participation is a pre-requisite for the 
              movements success. Having more women in our community advocating freedom will enrich our movement.&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;&quot;[/quote] 
-----------------------------

The OSS movement is a success, without women.
The success of the Free Software movement does not require women:
It allready is a success, and it didn&#039;t need women to become one.
The reason women are attacking the men of the free software movment is because
the movement is a success: if it was a failure they would never have seen 
it on their radar and the men would not be under assault.

However, they (the women) will succede in making sexism unacceptable in OSS
and recruit &quot;diversity&quot;, not programming talent. 

IE: If you don&#039;t obey them and agree with them: no more commit access to svn, no more acceptance of patches, and, hey, they don&#039;t even want you to begin with: you&#039;re not diverse (not a woman, or of a minority group that women use as supporters as &quot;oppressed people too&quot; (or at least try to)).

Now, men can fork these projects off.
How will the women counter that?
Will they campaign to change the licenses to something that they can control?
Will they use such ideas of &quot;community&quot; and &quot;respect&quot; and &quot;professional civility&quot; to achieve this. Will they have such projects excluded from distributions?
Probably. If none of this works will they use the legal system against men and companies in the free software movement; yes they will (they have done it in other industries and FOSS is just another subset of life for women&#039;s rights to wash over and drown)

Women&#039;s rights activists (Carla, Skud, Mekinzie...), you may not see yourself as an enemy of the Free Software Movement, but you are an enemy of the Men who participate in the free software movement.

The women&#039;s rights activists wish to conquer this territory and then exclude those men who do not follow their demands or &quot;advice&quot;. They have done so allready in the past (See: Ted Walther of Debian: kicked out of the debian distribution as a developer because he said anti-feminist things and the Debain Women did not approve of this).

Nina Reiser chose to become an enemy of Hans Reiser, one of the Men of the Free Software Movement. She committed adultery against him with his best friend, then she divorced him and stole his children (whom he loved), then she went after his meager wealth (most of which he had been using to fund opensource development so that we all might benifit), then after doing all this she visited him (perhaps to articulate legal threats to him and demand payment)... that was too much for him to stand there and do nothing. Now we are less one great developer and contributor to the opensource movement: he doesn&#039;t get to code while in prison, nor can he allocate monies towards developer&#039;s salaries (because he has none: prison doesn&#039;t pay well).

The women of the &quot;geek feminism&quot; movement will be just as effective at excising men from the movement as Nina was at systematically destroying Hans Reiser&#039;s life untill he saw no reason, nothing left in his life, that could hold him back from striking back. We will be driven out.
()()()

In the global community of persons, a sex war exists. Women wish to subjugate men to their demands. They wish to mine men for whatever prestige and wealth is available, they also wish to cast men off and, other than aquiring wealth and prestige and recognition from men, want nothing to do with men (this is why you have all the complaints against men asking for dates, telling the women how nice or pretty they are etc: the women do not want to give the men anything the men want (men want brides, or girlfriends, or partners), they just want to take whatever the men have and conqure the men&#039;s &quot;boys clubs&quot;.)

Women are winning this sex war. In the poorer areas of the world laws have been enacted that punish men for taking young women of childbearing age as wives. In the richer areas of the world that isn&#039;t an issue anymore, we have moved on to jail men at the behest of their wives, moved on to jail men at the behest of random accusers, moved on to destroy men&#039;s livelyhood at the behest of a female colleague.

Men are utterly dominated in the developed world, and are in the process of being dominated in the poorer parts of the world. We have lost, and now, the refuge of those that they (the women) reject as life-partners, our hobby, we will be excluded from aswell (to whatever degree that is possible.)

Men are the losers of the world and there seems to be nothing we can do about it (unfortunatly we are individuals that care about our own problems, and sometimes care about women... but we never care about &quot;Men&quot; in the same way that women care about &quot;Women&quot;, indeed we violently oppose things that are to the advantage of Men and cheer when &quot;bad men&quot; (whomever women deem to be bad: men who take fertile young females as wives for instance) are caged or killed.)

How can we change this? We can&#039;t: men are divided against themselves, men desire to &quot;look good&quot; in the eyes of &quot;society&quot;. Women hold fast and strong together and change society, men just think that they can &quot;beat the system&quot;. We&#039;ll never win, the women will get everything they want and beat us back, just like they always have in every peaceful society... every place where men are &quot;civilized&quot; (where men are tightly controled under threat of imprisonment and force of arms from the forces of the law for the benifit of women.)
()()()</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A letter to the women&#8217;s rights activists attacking the men of the free software movement:<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
[quote]<br />
In one of them the 2005 study by Yuwei Lin appears, entitled &#8220;Inclusion, diversity and gender equality: Gender Dimensions of the Free/Libre<br />
              Open Source Software Development&#8221; (PDF). As main points from this study were mentioned:<br />
 * &#8220;Strong long-hour coding culture * A lack of &#8216;mentors&#8217; and role models * Discriminatory language online and/or offline (e.g. phrases in<br />
              documentaries) * A gendered text-based environment * Lack of a women-centered view in FLOSS development * A male-dominated competitive<br />
              worldview * No sympathy from women peers</p>
<p> &#8216;Lack of a women-centered view in FLOSS development&#8217;</p>
<p> Robert isn&#8217;t simply banging a drum but provides quite simple guidelines to promote diversity, and thus a more women-friendly environment, in FOSS communities:</p>
<p>* Recruit diversity, not programming skills (&#8220;You can teach programming; you can&#8217;t teach passion of diversity&#8221;);</p>
<p>(Kirley Robert)</p>
<p> &#8220;&#8221;"&#8221;"&#8221;"Our objective is to increase women&#8217;s participation in the free software movement and work to make sexism in person or online<br />
              unacceptable within our community. Women represent less than 2% of the free software movement, yet our participation is a pre-requisite for the<br />
              movements success. Having more women in our community advocating freedom will enrich our movement.&#8221;"&#8221;"&#8221;"&#8221;"&#8221;[/quote]<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>The OSS movement is a success, without women.<br />
The success of the Free Software movement does not require women:<br />
It allready is a success, and it didn&#8217;t need women to become one.<br />
The reason women are attacking the men of the free software movment is because<br />
the movement is a success: if it was a failure they would never have seen<br />
it on their radar and the men would not be under assault.</p>
<p>However, they (the women) will succede in making sexism unacceptable in OSS<br />
and recruit &#8220;diversity&#8221;, not programming talent. </p>
<p>IE: If you don&#8217;t obey them and agree with them: no more commit access to svn, no more acceptance of patches, and, hey, they don&#8217;t even want you to begin with: you&#8217;re not diverse (not a woman, or of a minority group that women use as supporters as &#8220;oppressed people too&#8221; (or at least try to)).</p>
<p>Now, men can fork these projects off.<br />
How will the women counter that?<br />
Will they campaign to change the licenses to something that they can control?<br />
Will they use such ideas of &#8220;community&#8221; and &#8220;respect&#8221; and &#8220;professional civility&#8221; to achieve this. Will they have such projects excluded from distributions?<br />
Probably. If none of this works will they use the legal system against men and companies in the free software movement; yes they will (they have done it in other industries and FOSS is just another subset of life for women&#8217;s rights to wash over and drown)</p>
<p>Women&#8217;s rights activists (Carla, Skud, Mekinzie&#8230;), you may not see yourself as an enemy of the Free Software Movement, but you are an enemy of the Men who participate in the free software movement.</p>
<p>The women&#8217;s rights activists wish to conquer this territory and then exclude those men who do not follow their demands or &#8220;advice&#8221;. They have done so allready in the past (See: Ted Walther of Debian: kicked out of the debian distribution as a developer because he said anti-feminist things and the Debain Women did not approve of this).</p>
<p>Nina Reiser chose to become an enemy of Hans Reiser, one of the Men of the Free Software Movement. She committed adultery against him with his best friend, then she divorced him and stole his children (whom he loved), then she went after his meager wealth (most of which he had been using to fund opensource development so that we all might benifit), then after doing all this she visited him (perhaps to articulate legal threats to him and demand payment)&#8230; that was too much for him to stand there and do nothing. Now we are less one great developer and contributor to the opensource movement: he doesn&#8217;t get to code while in prison, nor can he allocate monies towards developer&#8217;s salaries (because he has none: prison doesn&#8217;t pay well).</p>
<p>The women of the &#8220;geek feminism&#8221; movement will be just as effective at excising men from the movement as Nina was at systematically destroying Hans Reiser&#8217;s life untill he saw no reason, nothing left in his life, that could hold him back from striking back. We will be driven out.<br />
()()()</p>
<p>In the global community of persons, a sex war exists. Women wish to subjugate men to their demands. They wish to mine men for whatever prestige and wealth is available, they also wish to cast men off and, other than aquiring wealth and prestige and recognition from men, want nothing to do with men (this is why you have all the complaints against men asking for dates, telling the women how nice or pretty they are etc: the women do not want to give the men anything the men want (men want brides, or girlfriends, or partners), they just want to take whatever the men have and conqure the men&#8217;s &#8220;boys clubs&#8221;.)</p>
<p>Women are winning this sex war. In the poorer areas of the world laws have been enacted that punish men for taking young women of childbearing age as wives. In the richer areas of the world that isn&#8217;t an issue anymore, we have moved on to jail men at the behest of their wives, moved on to jail men at the behest of random accusers, moved on to destroy men&#8217;s livelyhood at the behest of a female colleague.</p>
<p>Men are utterly dominated in the developed world, and are in the process of being dominated in the poorer parts of the world. We have lost, and now, the refuge of those that they (the women) reject as life-partners, our hobby, we will be excluded from aswell (to whatever degree that is possible.)</p>
<p>Men are the losers of the world and there seems to be nothing we can do about it (unfortunatly we are individuals that care about our own problems, and sometimes care about women&#8230; but we never care about &#8220;Men&#8221; in the same way that women care about &#8220;Women&#8221;, indeed we violently oppose things that are to the advantage of Men and cheer when &#8220;bad men&#8221; (whomever women deem to be bad: men who take fertile young females as wives for instance) are caged or killed.)</p>
<p>How can we change this? We can&#8217;t: men are divided against themselves, men desire to &#8220;look good&#8221; in the eyes of &#8220;society&#8221;. Women hold fast and strong together and change society, men just think that they can &#8220;beat the system&#8221;. We&#8217;ll never win, the women will get everything they want and beat us back, just like they always have in every peaceful society&#8230; every place where men are &#8220;civilized&#8221; (where men are tightly controled under threat of imprisonment and force of arms from the forces of the law for the benifit of women.)<br />
()()()</p>
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		<title>By: Sense Hofstede (qense) 's status on Wednesday, 30-Sep-09 19:56:55 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.sehofstede.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism/comment-page-1#comment-10489</link>
		<dc:creator>Sense Hofstede (qense) 's status on Wednesday, 30-Sep-09 19:56:55 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Sep 2009 19:57:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://qense.nl/?p=391#comment-10489</guid>
		<description>[...]  http://qense.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism        a few seconds ago  from  Gwibber [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  <a href="http://qense.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism" rel="nofollow">http://qense.nl/wrong-wording-is-not-sexism</a>        a few seconds ago  from  Gwibber [...]</p>
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